Wednesday, September 22, 2010

Wisconsin Open Carry

I say these guys are counterproductive to their own cause. Plus, they have a bit of trouble telling the truth.

Members of the group contend they were not trying to set up police, even though some members were wearing wires to record any such confrontation, WISC-TV reported.

"They didn't come out there with the intention of challenging the law," said Gold. "They didn't come out there with the intention of having an encounter with police. They came out to have a meal, to get to know each other and to socialize. It's as simple as that."

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.


  1. They didn't come with the intention of being mugged either, although preparations for that were apparent too.

  2. No one expects unwarranted police harassment.

  3. They are certainly counterproductive to YOUR cause.

    I see nothing but good coming out of this case.

    Unless you don't like people exercising their lawful rights as the proponents of this sites do.

  4. What part showed them having trouble telling the truth? From what I saw, the only person having trouble with the truth was the police spokesman(?), Joel Despain, when he said, "Certainly the law in the state is that you can have open carry. It's your second amendment right. And we respect that. But we still need to find out what people are doing when they walk around with guns on their hips."

    Really? Where was the respect, Joel? In a supposedly free society, where the presumption of innocence is still supposed to apply, people walking around with guns on their hips have not violated any law. Like it or not, that's a fact.

    So, for not violating the law, they are accosted by the police, and two members illegally detained and searched because they refused to show ID, also within their rights. True, the officers probably would have checked their IDs and moved on, had they simply cooperated. But rights aren't about cooperating with .gov, they are about protecting you from the overstepping authority of .gov.

    I guess it was a good thing they chose to wear a wire, huh? Otherwise, those Madison police officers may have gotten away with violating their rights.

    The Madison police dept. is going to be ponying up some money in the form of a settlement for an illegal detainment and illegal search.

  5. They didn't come out there with the intention of challenging the law . . .

    Sounds pretty indisputably true to me, unless compliance with all relevant laws can be characterized as "challenging the law."

  6. They were wired. You defensive guys, who always support the gun owners no matter what, are leaving that out. The little fact of their wearing a wire indicates they were looking for a confrontation and planning on taking best advantage of it. They were successful too.

    So the bullshit part, which I think describes it better than calling it a "lie," besides "lie" is too overused by you guys, is the statement that they were just there to have a meal and not looking for a confrontation. Bullshit!

  7. MikeB,

    The city's chief of police has made numerous threats against those lawfully carrying firearms. Wearing a wire or carrying a voice recorder is prudent when outright police harassment is not only possible but expected. If you are going to have a meal of do any lawful activity in that city, you need to be able to protect your civil rights from abuse. Who is going to do it for you, the Madison police?


    Anti-rights are Anti-Rights.

    Maybe you should start burning a cross in my yard ; ]

  9. Whether they were wired or not is beside the point. They were unlawfully harassed by the police, yet you don't seem to have any objection to that.

  10. "The little fact of their wearing a wire indicates they were looking for a confrontation..."

    No, MikeB, as usual, you've missed it.

    The reason they were wearing the hidden recorders is because other people who have gone out openly carrying a firearm have had their rights trampled upon, merely for daring to wear a gun visibly upon their person.

    For this, they are sometimes accosted, illegally detained, illegally searched, verbally abused and sometimes even falsely arrested and their guns stolen by the police. In the past, false accusations have been made by officers on the scene, and conveniently (for the officer) there is no video or audio to counter or confirm what the officer said happened. But look, the officer has witnesses! Two of his fellow "boys in blue" are agreeing with his version of the event, even though they may or may not have been on scene.

    How do you combat such happenings? What can honest citizens do?

    Wearing the wire makes as much sense to protect yourself from the "boys in blue" as wearing a gun does to protect yourself from criminal predation. It's like having three of more witnesses that cannot be refuted. The police can say that they said this or did that, and the audio recording will tell us what really happened.

    The reality is, these people did not want a confrontation, but they were prudently prepared for one.

  11. The best news is that the department is likely to come up on the short end of the stick in court, just as their thuggish cohorts did in Racine.

    Maybe some of the offending cops will lose their jobs, and perhaps be unable to find new employment, and eventually drink themselves to death under a bridge. Even without that happy outcome, the department's lost revenue will be that much more it lacks in resources to commit further atrocities.

  12. As for wearing a wire, it's obviously a very good thing they did. That's not "looking for a confrontation," any more than wearing a gun is. In both cases, it's a reasonable precaution, that harms no one, except those who bring the harm upon themselves, through their own predatory actions.

  13. Well, well, well--lookie here. From the article:

    Madison police confirmed that a call was placed to them by a concerned woman who had seen the men in the restaurant.

    "She sees some of these people with guns on their hips, and she's concerned enough to call us saying she feels that if she doesn't call and something horrible happens, she would feel terrible that she didn't call," said Joel DeSpain, Madison Police Department spokesman. "She said they weren't doing anything but she thinks we should check it out."

    Compare that to what we're finding out now.

    Excerpts from the 911 call, as obtained by a Freedom of Information request:

    “there’s no problem” . . . [the men are] “just sitting there extremely relaxed.”

    . . . And:

    there’s no problem and it’s no emergency . . .I feel bad then, if they’re not doing anything wrong then it’s my mistake.

    Doesn't really sound as if these good men did anything to "frighten" or "disturb" anyone.

    A recording of the call can be heard here.

    I see a world of legal hurt for the Madison, WI police department, and I'm grinning ear to ear about it.

  14. The legal wheels are already in motion. Anyone who wants to contribute to burying the Madison Police Department stormtroopers may donate here ("Donate to the Madison Legal Fund," to the upper right).

    Let's see justice done. We shall overcome.

  15. Ooh, doggies--this ain't lookin' good for the Madison police department, the city, or the taxpayers who are going to be left holding the bag. I'm grinning ear to ear.

    And, boy, am I looking forward to the day this bitch dies screaming:

    Have a good time staying at home. While legal, it's inappropriate and aggressive to pack your little pistols in public places. We won't miss you or the childish displays of constitutional freedoms.

    Lauren Cnare - District 3 Alder

    Hopefully, very soon . . .

  16. By the way, does anyone wanna offer odds on Wisconsin going another full year without concealed carry? I don't see it happening.

    I'd have to check to be sure, but I think it's been several consecutive years that the legislature has voted to pass concealed carry legislation, and only extremely narrowly missed overturning pro-tyranny governors' vetoes.

    Now, it looks as if pro-rights gubernatorial candidate Scott Walker is polling well against pro-tyranny advocate Tom Barrett, and I kinda doubt the pro-tyranny lobby is going to fare very well in the state legislatures this November.

    Actually, Wisconsin's anti-gun crybabies will probably be happier with legalized concealed carry in WI, because that will likely result in far less open carry--and open carry obviously frightens the dickens out of the poor little dears.